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Flaw636
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 122
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Location: United States- Detroit
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Worn Rollers/Uneven glazing? |
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Wondering about some rollers here guys.
I want to order the 4 gram dr pulley sliding rollers and sliders along with the dr pulley variator kit but before I do I wanted to clear some things up here.
The 4 gram rollers...using all 6 rollers that would come to a total of 24 grams.
I have only 3 of my stock rollers in as we speak in which are 18 grams total (3x 6 grams each)
So if I get the dr pulley variator and rollers with the 4 gram weights is it fair to say my take off wont be as good as it is with the 18 grams in it?
I havent lost any top end at all running the 3 rollers,still about 43 on a flat long stretch just takes a few thru midrange to achieve, however I did notice some uneven glazing and wear on the stock ones, which now weigh different amounts since I took them out and put the other 3 stock rollers in the other spaces.
The rollers I removed (after 500 miles) and each roller was different...one weighed 5 grams,the other was 6 grams and the other was like 5.5 so I'm asking here...first off,why the uneven wear? and second I dont want to lose this take off will I retain it after the pulley kit or will it get slower take off due to heavier than the 3 installed..
the other 3 rollers(stock) I placed in weighed 6 grams each but still only runing 3 until they wear out so I can buy the kit.
and also I have contacted mrp performance to find out if the dr pulley variator is available in my area with 4 gram weights
thanks in advance
Ken
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Flaw636
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
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Location: United States- Detroit
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: |
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spenuki
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 64
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Location: Wahiawa, Hawai'i
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Your 3 rollers still weigh in at 6 grams each and still needs more rpms to make them move outward. The idea of using rollers of lower weight is that they move out at a lower rpm. The combined weights of all 6 rollers doesn't make any difference.
Me thinks the uneven wear is due to the fact that you have only 3 rollers instead of the whole 6. You have only 3 rollers trying to do the job that 6 is supposed to be doing. More stress, more wear, probably more areas of uneven weight distribution as well. You also may be needing more rpms to move just 3 rollers. Figure they're taking on the stress that's supposed to be distributed among 6 rollers.
Kind of a bad analogy, but 3 palbearers versus 6. The darned coffin is fairly heavy and the 3 are going to struggle keeping the coffin lifted, where as all 6 has a much easier time. 
Although your idea works, using less is not always the best way to go in the long run. 
Does that help? My logic can sometimes suffer from senior moments.  Give it some time.....maybe one of the more experienced mechanics can explain it better.
Can't help you on the kit you're referring to. |
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Fox
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 5115
Karma: +241
Location: Los Angeles .... JmStar Sport 50.
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| spenuki wrote: | | The idea of using rollers of lower weight is that they move out at a lower rpm. |
It's actually the opposite spenuki. The lighter rollers require more RPM's to close the variator pulleys resulting in higher revs and quicker acceleration.
They move out at higher RPM's than heavier rollers. |
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spenuki
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 64
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Location: Wahiawa, Hawai'i
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: | | spenuki wrote: | | The idea of using rollers of lower weight is that they move out at a lower rpm. |
It's actually the opposite spenuki. The lighter rollers require more RPM's to close the variator pulleys resulting in higher revs and quicker acceleration.
They move out at higher RPM's than heavier rollers. |
....and there you have it. A senior moment and I just read about how the variator works.  Thanks Fox.
So just go the opposite of what I said. |
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jpmacd733
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1501
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Location: Saginaw, MI, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Worn Rollers/Uneven glazing? |
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| Flaw636 wrote: | Wondering about some rollers here guys.
I want to order the 4 gram dr pulley sliding rollers and sliders along with the dr pulley variator kit but before I do I wanted to clear some things up here.
The 4 gram rollers...using all 6 rollers that would come to a total of 24 grams.
I have only 3 of my stock rollers in as we speak in which are 18 grams total (3x 6 grams each)
So if I get the dr pulley variator and rollers with the 4 gram weights is it fair to say my take off wont be as good as it is with the 18 grams in it?
thanks in advance
Ken |
I doubt that moving from 18 grams to 24 grams will make a huge difference in acceleration. Stock was 36 grams so 24 will still be better than that, My personal opinion, your better off with 6 rollers in place.
Joe
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Flaw636
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 122
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Location: United States- Detroit
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I'm starting to hear a loud noise, maybe like a rattle or a type of whine coming from the crankcase so I'm figuring its gotta be the 3 rollers or a stretched belt but Ive only got 1100 miles and the belt looks ok and was kind of hard to get back on when the rollers were changed. The noise I'm referring to can usually can be heard upon acceleration between 25-30 and if Full throttle so might be time to swap em quick with all 6!
Again,Thanks everyone for the input
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larry8
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio USA
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Just had a thought. The centrifical force that throws the roller outward acts upon each roller individually. So the variator pulley sees 6 individual forces acting upon it. If you take out 3 then the pulley sees 3 individual forces (of the same magnitude) from each of the rollers. Those three will in essence, do 2X the work. If each roller is seeing 2X the work (load) then they will wear much faster and have more friction than 6 rollers would.
So if you put in 6 lighter rollers they should be slightly heavier than the combined weight of the original 3 rollers. This will take into account for the increased friction that the 3 rollers had, and your acceleration should be the same.
Does this sound right? or am I full of it??
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jpmacd733
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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Location: Saginaw, MI, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| larry8 wrote: | .........
Does this sound right? or am I full of it?? |
Sounds close enough to me I like the story.
Joe
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px166bajaj
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 6153
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Location: Sevenoaks Kent (Er, that's UK!)
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
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My attitude is, Honda designed these variators using the vast power of their R&D department. I expect they tried 3 rollers, 4 rollers, 47 ball bearings, 4 boiled eggs and a bean sandwich, and discarded the ideas.
We are mostly just people in sheds. If Honda say six rollers, that's good enough for me.
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larry8
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio USA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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px, have you tried the boiled eggs and a bean sandwich?? That might make it go faster as it will generate more gas.
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Flaw636
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
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Location: United States- Detroit
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Hey that actually sounds Pretty Logical Larry Thanks!
| Quote: | | 4 boiled eggs and a bean sandwich |
Px? wtf 
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px166bajaj
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Location: Sevenoaks Kent (Er, that's UK!)
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| larry8 wrote: | | px, have you tried the boiled eggs and a bean sandwich?? That might make it go faster as it will generate more gas. |
Yes
Pardon me!
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