Chinese Scooter Club

thruss91 · Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:02 am things to look for if your scoot 'aint startin'

firstly spark, take the plug out and hold the plug, with HT lead close to or against the frame or engine head, if it sparks with a strong blue spark, you have a decent enough spark. if it doesn't check the plug gap (it should be about 0.6 or 0.7mm), check the connections on the coil, plug cap, cdi-smell it to see if it has burnt out for some reason, the side stand is up, the 3 main things that can stop a spark is the coil, cdi and stator.

check for compression, the poor mans way for testing for compression is to crank the kickstart by hand until you hear a "pup pup" noise at the end of the compression stroke. you could use a compression tester which goes in the spark plug thread, an ideal compression for the engine is about 120psi I belive.

fuel. look at the petcock under the fuel tank, (it's round, grey and has two rubber tubes coming from it) follow the bottom tube to the elbow pipe between the carburettor and the engine, then follow the top tube to the left side of the carburettor and take it off and hold it in your hand, take the other tube off the elbow pipe and suck on it, if fuel comes out, you have fuel going into the carburettor.

when you try starting your engine after taking the carburettor apart, you'll need to crank it over for a while to get fuel through the system. if it the bike hasnt been started for a while, drain the tank and put fresh fuel in, fuel goes off after a while so it doesnt burn as well. try turmning it over with no throttyle for a while, then half throttle, open thr throttle to where it turns over fastest, keep trying and eventually it will star if it has compression, spark and fuel. if it still wont start check everything over again and look at the air intake, then ask us amazing forum people
:lol:

if anyone has anything to add go ahead.

LariRudi · Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:02 am Re: things to look for if your scoot 'aint startin'

thruss91 wrote: firstly spark, take the plug out and hold the plug, with HT lead close to or against the frame or engine head, if it sparks with a strong blue spark, you have a decent enough spark. if it doesn't check the plug gap (it should be about 0.6 or 0.7mm), check the connections on the coil, plug cap, cdi-smell it to see if it has burnt out for some reason, the side stand is up, the 3 main things that can stop a spark is the coil, cdi and stator.

check for compression, the poor mans way for testing for compression is to crank the kickstart by hand until you hear a "pup pup" noise at the end of the compression stroke. you could use a compression tester which goes in the spark plug thread, an ideal compression for the engine is about 120psi I belive.

fuel. look at the petcock under the fuel tank, (it's round, grey and has two rubber tubes coming from it) follow the bottom tube to the elbow pipe between the carburettor and the engine, then follow the top tube to the left side of the carburettor and take it off and hold it in your hand, take the other tube off the elbow pipe and suck on it, if fuel comes out, you have fuel going into the carburettor.

when you try starting your engine after taking the carburettor apart, you'll need to crank it over for a while to get fuel through the system. if it the bike hasnt been started for a while, drain the tank and put fresh fuel in, fuel goes off after a while so it doesnt burn as well. try turmning it over with no throttyle for a while, then half throttle, open thr throttle to where it turns over fastest, keep trying and eventually it will star if it has compression, spark and fuel. if it still wont start check everything over again and look at the air intake, then ask us amazing forum people
:lol:

if anyone has anything to add go ahead.

What if I know less than THAT?

Like, how can I tell if it is electric start? [I'm trying to help a lady get hers going]..................... some say the brake has to be on? WHICH ONE? is it true? I try kicking it and no pop-pop................... is the orange button on the right a kill switch? or a starter? [I know, DUMBO, but extra green beginner]

can't get INTO engine to try gas in spark plug hole, or to test spk plug.

Gotta know the BASICS before I put the key in, I guess, so here's what we do.......... put the key in, turn the key a click or two, then kick forever, and never a pop.

It says Rabbit SL50QT-16............ is there a book? is there an electrical diagram? [don't even know how to start a KNOWN, GOOD, RUNNING, scooter, let alone one that gives problems........ hmmm, maybe no problems with scooter, but problems with the OPERATOR?

thx, all help GREATLY appreciated.

LarryR : )

DaveH · Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:23 am

Larirudi,

Yes the rear brake should be applied and held (completes the starter circuit) whilst pressing the red starter (not kill) switch. At the risk of asking a silly question are you sure that you have the key in the correct position?

Most of these bikes are pretty similar so try looking at the user manuals which are pdf'd on here.

If you do need to know more try running a search on here as most of your questions will have been asked before.

Good luck!

px166bajaj · Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:35 am

You have to make sure the sidestand is folded away while starting as well. There is a cutout switch on it which prevents you from starting up and riding away with the stand down, and coming to grief on the first left turn.

LariRudi · Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:44 pm

DaveH wrote: Larirudi,

Yes the rear brake should be applied and held (completes the starter circuit) whilst pressing the red starter (not kill) switch. At the risk of asking a silly question are you sure that you have the key in the correct position?

Most of these bikes are pretty similar so try looking at the user manuals which are pdf'd on here.

If you do need to know more try running a search on here as most of your questions will have been asked before.

Good luck!

The SIMPLEST and most BASIC responses are valuable because SHE never owned/rode a scooter, and neither have I.

What is the correct key position? I've made sure that the key is in a position that allows the turn signals and horn to work, so I ASSUMED that is a good position.

Telling me the REAR brake should be pulled is GOOD info, I didn't know that [still didn't start, tho]. Are we sure we have a STARTER [not kill switch?].............. and what about the CENTER stand, is there a lockout on IT to keep the engine from starting?

Spark Plug.............. Petcock................ CAN'T GET TO IT......... the plastic parts seem to be all locked together............ do I have to get it NAKED? [serious]................. I hear it might be a VACUUM petcock................. can't get to it.

If I assume the "engine" "petcock" and "carb" and SPARK is ok.......... just continue to give me precise procedures [we know NOTHING]........ no answer is TOO basic for us.

For whatever it is worth, the headlight is not working.... I'm presuming it's the bulb.

Nobody said anything about owning this Rabbit SL50QT-16 [ooops, my memory, don't have enact num in front of me; see earlier post] or if there are owner's manuals and/or wiring diagrams available.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP SO FAR.

LarryR : )

LariRudi · Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:48 pm

DaveH wrote: Larirudi,

......................Most of these bikes are pretty similar so try looking at the user manuals which are pdf'd on here.

If you do need to know more try running a search on here as most of your questions will have been asked before.

Good luck!

I am going to search............. I'm brand new on here, but my search for my model number is what brought me to THIS forum.

Again, ANY and ALL "silly/basic" responses are helpful.

LarryR : )

DaveH · Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:11 pm

OK have a look at this, I know its not exactly your bike but can't imagine its that different ...

http://www.davidstephen.me.uk/servicemanuals/baotian_scooter.pdf

With regard to the ignition switch -if it is in the correct position ....(the 12 o'clock position in the example in the manual)....the fuel gauge will rise.

Yes -it is a starter switch....did the starter motor turn?

No there is no cutout switch on the centre stand just the side stand.

On many bikes the headlight will not work when the engine isn't running, so the bulb may well be fine.

LariRudi · Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:14 pm

DaveH wrote: OK have a look at this, I know its not exactly your bike but can't imagine its that different ...

http://www.davidstephen.me.uk/servicemanuals/baotian_scooter.pdf

With regard to the ignition switch -if it is in the correct position ....(the 12 o'clock position in the example in the manual)....the fuel gauge will rise.

Yes -it is a starter switch....did the starter motor turn?

No there is no cutout switch on the centre stand just the side stand.

On many bikes the headlight will not work when the engine isn't running, so the bulb may well be fine.

No, the starter did not turn [that's why I suspected it of being a "kill" switch like on a motorcycle, ha], but now I'm suspecting some kind of interlock [like left kick stand, or more], and I WILL look at your link for manual, THANKS.

LarryR : )

px166bajaj · Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:27 pm

LariRudi wrote:
Again, ANY and ALL "silly/basic" responses are helpful.

You HAVE got petrol in the tank, haven't you? :oops:

thruss91 · Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:30 pm

hey I forgot about this post. sorry it wasnt more basic, looking at it now I forgot the easy stuff :roll: the side stand switch is notorious for mucking up, I unfortunately havent looked at one close enough to know what I'm talking about when looking at that killswitch. if we get basic, check that the RED wire is on the positive(+) side of the battery. jmpcad..(joe) on here is an electrical guru so he can help you. sorry I cant help as much as I would like to.

Fox · Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:16 pm

You have to squeeze either brake handle to get the starter to turn.

LariRudi · Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:48 am

px166bajaj wrote: LariRudi wrote:
Again, ANY and ALL "silly/basic" responses are helpful.

You HAVE got petrol in the tank, haven't you? :oops:

Yes, I appreciate the basics. Yes, there is gas/petrol, but I'm considering dumping it out and putting in FRESH gasoline.

And to the other person, yes, red is on positive, and two blacks are on the negative.

thx,

LarryR : )

halley · Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:57 am

LariRudi wrote: And to the other person, yes, red is on positive, and two blacks are on the negative.

In another thread, someone discovered that one of those blacks is actually a green or red with a cheap black protective sleeve around it. You probably only need one thing going to the negative pole of the battery (system ground). You need two circuits attached to the positive pole (charging system and ignition system).

The most basic tests:

* turn the key to live/ignition, does the gas needle move?
* is the emergency kill switch in RUNNING position?
* is the sidestand up? (many bikes don't care)
* with either brake lever squeezed, hit starter button. any noise at all?

If there's noise, then check the starter system:

* starter motor clicks? starter motor repeats a turning sound if held a few seconds?
* lights come on dimly? brightly?
* larger motor sounds at all? pop? puff? roll over then clunk?
* still hold a brake lever when trying to kickstart. easy? hard? any momentum after a kick?

I think if it rolls over at least once then dies, then it's down to fuel supply, compression problem, or it could be seized from lack of oil.

thebiggreenie · Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:48 pm

Yeh... there shouldn't be two blacks. If it's red or it's got a fuse, stick it on the positive.

LariRudi · Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:51 pm

halley wrote: LariRudi wrote: And to the other person, yes, red is on positive, and two blacks are on the negative.

In another thread, someone discovered that one of those blacks is actually a green or red with a cheap black protective sleeve around it. You probably only need one thing going to the negative pole of the battery (system ground). You need two circuits attached to the positive pole (charging system and ignition system).

The most basic tests:

* turn the key to live/ignition, does the gas needle move?
* is the emergency kill switch in RUNNING position?
* is the sidestand up? (many bikes don't care)
* with either brake lever squeezed, hit starter button. any noise at all?

If there's noise, then check the starter system:

* starter motor clicks? starter motor repeats a turning sound if held a few seconds?
* lights come on dimly? brightly?
* larger motor sounds at all? pop? puff? roll over then clunk?
* still hold a brake lever when trying to kickstart. easy? hard? any momentum after a kick?

I think if it rolls over at least once then dies, then it's down to fuel supply, compression problem, or it could be seized from lack of oil.

To you and the person after YOUR post:

Now all your comments might seem SIMPLE/BASIC to you people, but they are VALUABLE TO ME. So many thanks.

Three things have now come up. Found this way; Three wires to batt; red [FUSED] to positive; left it that way, of course. Two BLACKS on neg.... will experiment with them, but will leave the thickest/heaviest on the NEG, and will take more comments on the smaller black; will peel it to see if it's truly a DIFFERENT color, but you people say put the "third" wire on the POS?

I've BEEN KICK STARTING LIKE CRAZY and repeat NEVER A SINGLE POP OR SPUTTER.... and never owned 49cc before; only a 550 Suzuki, ha, and it kicks hard, so no comparison, BUT it dismayed me that [there IS compression] that the motor [how did you say it?] has no "momentum" past the part when your foot has reached it's limit. I DID expect SOME kind of [dead] rollover, but none. Wore the bottom of my toe out trying [it's SORE].

Starter button on the right handlebar NEVER did a thing to starter motor... that's why [ha] I THOUGT it was a "kill" switch. Now, thx to you people, I know it's a STARTER button.

That is ANOTHER reason why I say no comment is tooooo small.... I've never worked with one of these 49cc's before.

Biggie seems to be the third wire is in wrong place; hope I don't burn out something by putting it on POS..................... hmmmmm, wonder if the wire will REACH the other terminal.

Oh, yes, people, I checked the fuse and it's NOT burned out; it has continuity. Of course you KNEW that because I told you the turn signals and brake lights work.

Thanks again,

LarryR : )